Topic ID #1738 - posted 9/2/2007 3:22 AM
Fractured.Rock
IP and archaeology photos
Fractured.Rock
I am just wondering what people's take is on this particular issue...
An incident occurred when my MA supervisor has claimed intellectual property on a photograph i took with my own camera of an excavation pit of a site. I was essentially 'volunteering' on the dig in NY, although all the bone assemblages from the excavation were to form the focus of my thesis. The fieldwork itself wasn't part of my degree, just the analysis of the assemblages (don't ask about the deal with this...it was very complex).
At the time i was encouraged to take photographs for my own use in my thesis, although this wasn't a 'duty' of mine, in fact all the official photos for the fieldwork record were taken by my supervisor on his camera.
However when it came to writing up my thesis, my supervisor said that the photograph was actually his intellectual property. He was concerned about the fact that the research had not yet been published, and so the only way he would let me use the photograph would be if i put it in his name, stating i had used it with his permission (he didn't want anyone in the future referencing it to me, rather than him). He will use the photograph in a publication later without reference to me.
This seemed really silly to me. Especially since nobody is ever likely to read my MA. I asked a few people about what they thought, and i am getting mixed results. Some people have agreed that what my supervisor has done is legal, and others say otherwise.
I did actually look into some of the legislation of this myself and have decided that it is a very grey area.
What my supervisor is arguing is that he owns the IP of the excavation because it was his idea, and thus therefore owns the photograph. Copyright and IP legislation says that IP of a scientific discovery extends to 'reproductions' of the discovery. This is obviously what he think applies.
If you look into it deeper however it seems that:
1. a photograph is artwork not a reproduction. I believe that reproductions more refer to making a functional copy of an invention or something. Copyright law in the US says that a photograph requires skill and is an interpretation or impression, and thus the artist has the IP of it.
2. Archaeological sites, excavations and artifacts from them are CULTURAL PROPERTY not intellectual property according to the laws of UNESCO (as cited in the copyright law). Thus i don't think an archaeologist can own them.
So i believe that not only does this mean that my supervisor does not have IP of the excavation and the artefacts, but he also can't claim ownership of the photograph without my permission (which have not given him).
What do people think about this? Has anyone come across similar instances. Is my reading of the law completely off track (i am doing archaeology after all not law, so it could be)?
An incident occurred when my MA supervisor has claimed intellectual property on a photograph i took with my own camera of an excavation pit of a site. I was essentially 'volunteering' on the dig in NY, although all the bone assemblages from the excavation were to form the focus of my thesis. The fieldwork itself wasn't part of my degree, just the analysis of the assemblages (don't ask about the deal with this...it was very complex).
At the time i was encouraged to take photographs for my own use in my thesis, although this wasn't a 'duty' of mine, in fact all the official photos for the fieldwork record were taken by my supervisor on his camera.
However when it came to writing up my thesis, my supervisor said that the photograph was actually his intellectual property. He was concerned about the fact that the research had not yet been published, and so the only way he would let me use the photograph would be if i put it in his name, stating i had used it with his permission (he didn't want anyone in the future referencing it to me, rather than him). He will use the photograph in a publication later without reference to me.
This seemed really silly to me. Especially since nobody is ever likely to read my MA. I asked a few people about what they thought, and i am getting mixed results. Some people have agreed that what my supervisor has done is legal, and others say otherwise.
I did actually look into some of the legislation of this myself and have decided that it is a very grey area.
What my supervisor is arguing is that he owns the IP of the excavation because it was his idea, and thus therefore owns the photograph. Copyright and IP legislation says that IP of a scientific discovery extends to 'reproductions' of the discovery. This is obviously what he think applies.
If you look into it deeper however it seems that:
1. a photograph is artwork not a reproduction. I believe that reproductions more refer to making a functional copy of an invention or something. Copyright law in the US says that a photograph requires skill and is an interpretation or impression, and thus the artist has the IP of it.
2. Archaeological sites, excavations and artifacts from them are CULTURAL PROPERTY not intellectual property according to the laws of UNESCO (as cited in the copyright law). Thus i don't think an archaeologist can own them.
So i believe that not only does this mean that my supervisor does not have IP of the excavation and the artefacts, but he also can't claim ownership of the photograph without my permission (which have not given him).
What do people think about this? Has anyone come across similar instances. Is my reading of the law completely off track (i am doing archaeology after all not law, so it could be)?
Post ID#3296 - replied 9/2/2007 11:19 AM
FireArch
Moderator
Another example of how certain aspects of our culture are getting a bit too far out of hand....
Anyway. Something to consider here, outside of the legal aspect, is the political: How important is this person to your future? That is, will you likely be working with this guy in the future, will you be using him as a reference - either directly or indirectly, are those photographs you took seminal to your thesis?
I actually agree with your position on this subject; its just photographs of the stuff (which I can see can be construed as "reproduction"), and disagree with the PI's position that the stuff is his intellectual property - that isnt logical; he didnt invent this stuff or create it, he "found it." If anything the IP belongs to the people who left it to be found.
Anyway, again, I would suggest letting this guy have his power trip, but only to the point where it doesnt have an adverse effect on you or your project; you dont need enemies in places where you need allies.
Richard
Anyway. Something to consider here, outside of the legal aspect, is the political: How important is this person to your future? That is, will you likely be working with this guy in the future, will you be using him as a reference - either directly or indirectly, are those photographs you took seminal to your thesis?
I actually agree with your position on this subject; its just photographs of the stuff (which I can see can be construed as "reproduction"), and disagree with the PI's position that the stuff is his intellectual property - that isnt logical; he didnt invent this stuff or create it, he "found it." If anything the IP belongs to the people who left it to be found.
Anyway, again, I would suggest letting this guy have his power trip, but only to the point where it doesnt have an adverse effect on you or your project; you dont need enemies in places where you need allies.
Richard
Post ID#3300 - replied 9/2/2007 6:06 PM
scottyj432
If it was your camera, your film and you paid for the processing/printing, then the photos are yours. If the project owned the camera, paid for the film, processing etc., then the IP belongs to the project. Not being a lawyer myself, it would seem to me that unless you signed some sort of legal agreement involving things such as photos, publications etc., then your PI has no legal claim to your photos.
Post ID#3301 - replied 9/2/2007 6:41 PM
Fractured.Rock
Well yes this person is important for my future.
I am now going out of my way not to use the photo now because on principle i would hate to see his name on it (and he doesn't care less if i don't use it).
However i was interested in the legalities of it, because i think it will have relevance how i negotiate the next field season with him (which should have an aspect of 'my own fieldwork'), to make sure that I will have IP of any photos i take for my own project.
So if anyone has any further perspectives on the matter, i'd really love the info.
Thanks to everyone posted thus far!
I am now going out of my way not to use the photo now because on principle i would hate to see his name on it (and he doesn't care less if i don't use it).
However i was interested in the legalities of it, because i think it will have relevance how i negotiate the next field season with him (which should have an aspect of 'my own fieldwork'), to make sure that I will have IP of any photos i take for my own project.
So if anyone has any further perspectives on the matter, i'd really love the info.
Thanks to everyone posted thus far!
Post ID#3314 - replied 9/3/2007 5:20 PM
AMB
Doesn't sound like anyone I would partake in any future research "with". I say finish the thesis (without the photo) and get out of there ASAP.
Post ID#3324 - replied 9/4/2007 10:55 AM
Dmack89
Frac..
the whole idea that pics you took are his property is ridiculous - would he claim the same for any visitor to the site!
Was this a CRM project or an academic one? IF it is a CRM project - definitley send me a note directly and I will see if I can give you an advice that could be helpful. If its Academic you can still write to me, but I am not in the same position with regard to Academics - though I still may be able to provide some insight for you.
As for Intellectual property - if you are using the photo to talk about your topic - its your property - no question - and if he uses your ideas (you have to have them written down and published somewhere - even if just on a blog) then he would be the one using your property and guilty of plagirism. Especially if you did not get paid to produce the information!
good luck
DM
the whole idea that pics you took are his property is ridiculous - would he claim the same for any visitor to the site!
Was this a CRM project or an academic one? IF it is a CRM project - definitley send me a note directly and I will see if I can give you an advice that could be helpful. If its Academic you can still write to me, but I am not in the same position with regard to Academics - though I still may be able to provide some insight for you.
As for Intellectual property - if you are using the photo to talk about your topic - its your property - no question - and if he uses your ideas (you have to have them written down and published somewhere - even if just on a blog) then he would be the one using your property and guilty of plagirism. Especially if you did not get paid to produce the information!
good luck
DM
Post ID#3331 - replied 9/4/2007 4:08 PM
rtx2
It would seem as though if it were your "dime" shall we say, yours pictures are yours. Thinking out loud (and from the mind of a newbie undergrad student -- so use at your own risk), it sounds like this person is concerned about reference, and is unfairly encumbering you with their poor interpersonal skills. Perhaps you should just go ahead and use them any way. I do not think it would do this persons research (or reputation) any good if peers found out that this person "intimidated" a masters student. I disagree for the most part about just playing it out and bailing. Perhaps this person is doing what they are doing because they have gotten away with it in the past? If this is the case, it would be unfortunate to allow other students behind you to go through this same thing. If you are in the position to do something about it, I suggest you do it. This is your work, your photos, your project. I wouldn't let any one take that away from me without some sort of fight. Perhaps there is wording some place that will address whether or not this guy can do this?
Post ID#3542 - replied 9/15/2007 11:33 PM
grabast
Your MA supervisor is an idiot when it comes to understanding intellectual property. It was your camera, your time, your film ... it is your picture. Without a contrary agreement, U.S. copyright law clearly supports your ownership assertion for the photographs. His unauthorized use would constitute legal infringement. Not only is he plagiarizing your work, but a court would penalize him financially for doing so. While I do not know the situational details, I suspect professional ethics recommend you acknowledge the fact that the photographs were taken from his project, but the legal copyright belongs to you. Should you permit him to use those photographs, professional courtesy and legal obligation dictates he credit you as the photographer, copyright owner, or as you dictate.
I use volunteers often to progress several research projects. One of the requirements I assert on volunteers before they begin is that they provide our nonprofit corporation with full-resolution copies of their photographs taken while they are working on our projects, and they must give us permission to use the photograph as we desire (except for reuse by other parties). We clearly know who owns these photographs. We maintain a subordinate copyright and always credit the photographer (see our latest for an example http:www.new-idria.org/inventory). Anyone else wishing to use these photograph must obtain permission from the photographer, not us.
However, if your issue hinges on finishing your thesis – then I suggest you quietly copyright your photographs with the US Copyright Office (very inexpensive and easy to do-get the forms online). Finish your thesis, and then hit the SOB with a copyright infringement notice later. I won’t cost much to hire an attorney to draft a letter, which will clearly put this arrogant SOB on notice that he stepped on the wrong toes. Whether you pursue the issue beyond the letter is up to you. Having personal experience using the court to rearrange crouch geography, I can tell you that the revenge factor is very rewarding – but nothing else works out the way you expect. I strongly recommend avoiding actual litigation because it is very expensive, both financially and emotionally. There are many other things you can exchange your time on earth for that are much more rewarding. Good Luck.
I use volunteers often to progress several research projects. One of the requirements I assert on volunteers before they begin is that they provide our nonprofit corporation with full-resolution copies of their photographs taken while they are working on our projects, and they must give us permission to use the photograph as we desire (except for reuse by other parties). We clearly know who owns these photographs. We maintain a subordinate copyright and always credit the photographer (see our latest for an example http:www.new-idria.org/inventory). Anyone else wishing to use these photograph must obtain permission from the photographer, not us.
However, if your issue hinges on finishing your thesis – then I suggest you quietly copyright your photographs with the US Copyright Office (very inexpensive and easy to do-get the forms online). Finish your thesis, and then hit the SOB with a copyright infringement notice later. I won’t cost much to hire an attorney to draft a letter, which will clearly put this arrogant SOB on notice that he stepped on the wrong toes. Whether you pursue the issue beyond the letter is up to you. Having personal experience using the court to rearrange crouch geography, I can tell you that the revenge factor is very rewarding – but nothing else works out the way you expect. I strongly recommend avoiding actual litigation because it is very expensive, both financially and emotionally. There are many other things you can exchange your time on earth for that are much more rewarding. Good Luck.
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