Gary,

The Mods are not necessarily in the habit of holding everyone's hand as the wend their way through their CRM career. Ya, I think the pay is much too low as well, and I'm sure most of us here will likely agree, however, it is not our responsibility to tell an employer what to offer in the way of remuneration. Like labor and products in other business sectors market forces will dictate whether or not that is a poor wage for the area and level of responsibility.

That said, there is ongoing discussion on your topic (http://www.archaeologyfieldwork.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2471) where the possibility of restricting low wage posts has been broached.

So, let's assume that we can restrict low wage posts; where do we draw the line? What's too low? Who's standard do we use? How do we define boundaries for wage areas (e.g., California should be relatively higher than say West Virginia base on purchasing power, right)? Who is going to pay the legal fees when someone decides to sue for restraint of trade?

If and when Jennifer decides to set a policy concerning wage appropriateness then we can moderate that area of this webpage. Until then folks will have to search their souls and use their judgment as to what is best for them.

Cheers,

Richard

Richard hit the nail on the head, but I will add my own commentary on this as well...

Let's not go down the "any ad for a buck" road, please!!!!

I'm guessing by this statement that you think the website is somehow making money by CRM companies posting a job advert, and this is why adverts for relatively low-paying field teching jobs are allowed. Am I correct in this assumption? If only you knew how wrong you were! Unlike some other archaeology employment websites out there on the internet, archaeologyfieldwork.com is not, nor has ever tried to be a "money-making machine". I have never asked CRM companies to pay (or "donate" money) to post job adverts, just as I would never ask prospective job seekers to pay money for the privilege of posting their resume. There is no money being generated by any ad being posted in the employment listings forum. I would like this to be clear. This website was never meant to be any kind of a money-maker, though for some reason a lot of folks I have met through the years have thought the opposite was true. If I had a dollar for every person I worked with on a CRM project who asked me how much money archaeologyfieldwork.com made... :roll:

A very small trickle of income for archaeologyfieldwork.com is generated through alternative means - the Google ads you see at the bottom of the forums screen (though I'm still waiting for a check), a percentage of proceeds from the bookstore through Amazon.com (also still waiting to see a check), and there is a Paypal button for the rare donation that is made by a website visitor. All of these potential income generators probably bring in a grand total of two hundred dollars a year, if I'm lucky. This is just enough to pay for the cost of web hosting for archaeologyfieldwork.com, the domain renewal fee, and a chunk of my regular internet access - and nothing more. I'm not making money off this site... really. My husband likes to call archaeologyfieldwork.com "the money pit" for all the $ I've thrown into it in years past. I didn't want to go into any of this in great depth, but since it was brought up, I wanted anyone who is wondering to understand that "bad" adverts are not allowed because we are trying to make money here. Nothing could be further from the truth, and honestly, I'm a little bit offended on a personal basis that someone would think otherwise.

How low is too low of a pay scale? That is definately a matter of opinion. If I withheld the advertisement of field positions on this site based upon what I thought firms should be paying, there would hardly be any posts in the employment listings forum at all. Seriously. Employers who wanted to advertise positions would just go elsewhere, as there are many other venues for this on the web. I am also appalled at the low wages for field crew in CRM and dismayed to find that in some cases, the pay being offered is the same as when I first started in CRM in 1994. Would I take a field teching position for $10 or $11 an hour? Hell no! But you know, there are folks that would, and do. There is no framework in place within our profession to limit how low a company can pay, and until that changes, anything goes. It has always been my opinion that any and all job adverts should be allowed here. No one is holding a gun to your head telling you that you must accept a position on a project that pays $10 or $11 an hour. But you know... someone is obviously taking these jobs, whatever their reasons may be, and these ads remain for the folks that are interested in signing on for these projects.

Richard is correct in pointing you to one of the many ongoing discussions here on the website regarding low wages for field crew in CRM. We've been talking this to death for years on archaeologyfieldwork.com, and I'm sure we will continue to discuss it for years to come. I would encourage you to look up these existing message threads and contribute to the discussions there.

Thanks for understanding my position on this...

Jennifer

Low pay aside, it sounds like an interesting project in a time when data recovery projects are fairly rare.

Also, the perdiem seems generous--I've never, in all my years, got perdiem on days not worked. I realize that perdiem is not compensation, but by frugal living I have been able to give myself the equivalent of a buck or two more an hour in compensation.

That said, I wouldn't work for 11.50/hr, either.

Archeovagrant,

actually the per diem isn't all that considering that the schedule is 6 on with 1 on and you pay for your own hotel. I have worked for the company before just to fill in a time-off gap and the only way to make that per diem work is to ROOM with someone else. I know the majority of us have done this ealy in our careers but now with our experience and age we REFUSE to do this. Otherwise the per diem only comes out to 21$ a day if you can find a decent room for 45 a day. I have worked for a company that gave 30 a day 7 days a week with a 8 on and 6 off schedule and the compensation was much higher than that with single occupancy. Of course that is extremely rare and an example more companies should follow!

The pay is good if you are just starting out with no experience. Overall the company is ok.

I'm not sure why they are not covering the hotel costs, I think they are pocketing that money, as the Feds state that Lodging+ME&I reimbursement for WVA is between $118 and $135 per day (see: http://www.gsa.gov/Portal/gsa/ep/contentView.do?queryYear=2008&contentType=GSA_BASIC&contentId=17943&queryState=West+Virginia&noc=T)

also:

Primary Destination : County : Lodging : ME&I : Max Rate : First and Last Day (@75%)

Charleston : Kanawha : $91 : $44 : $135 : $33.0
Morgantown : Monongalia : 79 : 44 : 123 : 33.0
Shepherdstown : Jefferson : 78 : 44 : 122 : 33.0
Wheeling : Ohio : 74 : 44 : 118 : 33.0

Ive followed this subject ever since Ijoined AFW.com about 6 years ago. Im not sure what the ansewer is but a few thots. My wife worked for a consulating C for 26 years that paid above average wages for field techs. (She has since left and started her own CRM business). Ive een her fight the Co she worked for for fair wages for employees, not having to share motel rooms and per diem on weekends. She made some progress but it was a long time coming. the Co still trys o nickel and dime the troops!

I work for the Fed Govt which I thinkoverall pays a fair wge and treats you fairly (no frills but fair). I recently hired a GS 4 Arctech He was a senior in anthro and going onto grad school. GS 4 pays $12.78 per hr, after graduation he should be a GS 5 (not sure what the hrly rateis but close $14 or 15 per hr or so of grad schol he should be a GS 7 (you can look up the Fed wage scale) but I think hat is about $17 per hour. In the field we often have a camp cook, showers etc and hence no per iem. If we camp out with no cook etc and have to buy our own grocerices per diem is $19 per day. Other wise it is determined by Fed standards of each state and county, Lodeging and Meals and incidental. Wn Dc is more expensive than Broadus MT.

Companies who bid on Fed jobs are expected to pay the going wages for the various specialties and the Fed per diem rate. That s partially why wages and per diem vary so wildly in this business. If its a fed job the pay and per diem is usually better. If its for a developer or the local county who just has to to do min compliance they try to nickel and dime the project and it falls down hill to the troops--hence low wages and measly per diem, shraed rooms etc

To be fairconsutling companies have to pay the rent, keep the permanent staff working and paid and generate a profit to stay in business, upgrade equipment and bid on new jobs (some of which will not get).

OK I belive inthe free enterprise system, ingenuity and creativity etc. But why dont we start with paying positions a standard rate such as the Fed govt; GS 4, 5, 7 , 9, 11 etc. and following the Fed per diem guidelines the competition comes from the proposal and the quality and abilites of the crew the Co puts together. Goodcrewsequates into a job on time and within budget and a good report and a good reputation. The curent system leads to unqualified people doing marginal work for people who could give shit about the resource.

Now dont think the Feds are overly generous or insightful. I always get the request to do a two week project in 3 days with the staement 'dont spend a lot of mney on it just enough to get us by" OK I say and I send in the 3 day report into the SHPO adn it comes back "You need more work' OK two weeks late the job is done right.

Botten line is we begin by using the Fed wage and perdiem standards for CRM firms. God (or whoever?) knows pvt industry pays a whole lot more than the Feds in per diem and salary for lots of jobs, but I think this is where archeology should start.

My 2 cents!

CMM :?

Milo,

re: immediately above

I think you may have a good idea here, and it was something that David (BAJR) mentioned as well. I've been, as a matter of interest, checking the payrates (if mentioned) of some job announcements against the Service Contract Act payscale for the area mentioned in the announcement. Using key phrases concerning responsibility and the Dept of Labor defs for Arch. Techs. I often see some severe discrepancies between the federal prevailing wage (higher) and the pay being offered (lower). For instance, there is a recent announcement for a Crew Chief along the Eastern Seaboard that had a starting wage of just over 30K/annum, which works out to $14.50/hr. The federal rate for that level of responsibility (Crew Chief or Arch Tech III) is $20.62 - That's $6.12 an hour difference, or $12,730/yr!!!

So, what if we (all of us not just one or two, but all of You) were all to email these folks something along the lines of:

Dear Soandso,
I recently saw your announcement for Crew Chief in Wheresitat, Stateofyourchoice. Your compensation offer of $X per hour is $Y less than federal prevailing wage for your area. Please consider adjusting your pay rate to reflect the importance of the position you are trying to fill by compensating the best possible candidate appropriately.
Thank you,

Someone (first name or alias should be ok enough).

Anyone else think it would help?

well... of course I would... :lol:

Only questioning people do they change...

If they don't answer then they are obviously ashamed (and know they are underpaying)... if they do answer, then they are willing to enter into dialogue.

So either way... you know what you are dealing with.