Topic ID #28099 - posted 4/6/2013 7:53 PM

Crying Uncle!!



Charlie Hatchett

Hi guys.

I'm stumped. I've been trying to figure out what this bugger is:


paleo%20artifact%20203.jpg

http://bandstex.globat.com/Site/Paleo/paleo%20artifact%20203.jpg

Found a similar one at the same location about 6 years ago:

paleo%20artifact%2029.jpg

http://bandstex.globat.com/Site/Paleo/paleo%20artifact%2029.jpg

This is about 15 miles downstream from the Wilson-Leonard site, on Brushy Creek, or about 30 miles SSE of Gault.

The location has turned up Early to Late Paleo stuff (Possible pre-Clovis- Clovis- San Patrice- Wilson).

The closest ideas I've come up with are "Unfluted Cumberland" or Fishtailed Windust, neither of which has been reported in Texas ( AFAIK).

Any help from the vast pool of knowledge here will be much appreciated.

Thanks!

Charlie Hatchett

PreClovis, Paleo and Archaic Artifacts from Central Texas

http://www.pre-clovis.com
http://www.forum.pre-clovis.com
http://www.blog.pre-clovis.com




Post ID#20077 - replied 4/8/2013 7:35 AM



Dmack89


Charlie - 

 Cumberland was my first thought, by I don't consider myself a specialist or expert in the period.  I have pased your images on to a contact that is though and will let you know if he has any ideas.

DM

Post ID#20080 - replied 4/8/2013 1:48 PM



Dmack89

Charlie -

  Info back from my contact - after acknoweldging that Texas is bit out of his territory -
"...based on some references I have, the primary characteristics of these two points [parallel-oblique flaking and the slight "waist" at the base] look like what George Frison refers to as James Allen points of the Frederick complex at Hell Gap. This point form dates to about 8900-8400 BP (uncalibrated) and stratigraphically overlies/postdates parallel- or collaterally flaked points of the Cody complex. Frison argues that this basic form extends from the Northern Plains and Rockies to the central and southern Plains..."

Post ID#20081 - replied 4/9/2013 3:17 AM



Charlie Hatchett

Hi Dmack,

Thanks a million for the info. What you've relayed follows the general rule for central Texas parallel-oblique flaking: Late Paleo.  Somebody else brought up Beaver Lake points:


"...At one time, Beaver Lake points were called Unfluted Cumberland..."

http://www.lithicsnet.com/beaverlake.htm

br62.jpg


Charlie Hatchett

PreClovis, Paleo and Archaic Artifacts from Central Texas

http://www.pre-clovis.com
http://www.forum.pre-clovis.com
http://www.blog.pre-clovis.com

Post ID#20082 - replied 4/9/2013 6:33 AM



scottyj432

My reference materials also suggest it is a James Allen.

Post ID#20083 - replied 4/9/2013 2:56 PM



Charlie Hatchett

Thanks Scotty,

Charlie

Charlie Hatchett

PreClovis, Paleo and Archaic Artifacts from Central Texas

http://www.pre-clovis.com
http://www.forum.pre-clovis.com
http://www.blog.pre-clovis.com

Post ID#20084 - replied 4/9/2013 3:02 PM



Charlie Hatchett

So we're looking at ca. 10,000 calybp to 9400 calybp, or Late Paleo.

Thanks for the help guys,

Charlie

Charlie Hatchett

PreClovis, Paleo and Archaic Artifacts from Central Texas

http://www.pre-clovis.com
http://www.forum.pre-clovis.com
http://www.blog.pre-clovis.com

Post ID#20095 - replied 4/13/2013 12:16 PM



StarRider


Sounds good. The points pictured only slightly resemble Cumberland in outline...Cumberland is flaked to a median ridge and then the ridge is removed for the flute, they actually are more closely akin to Folsom than Clovis in their manufacturing method. They are also almost invariably extremely well made, one of if not the most cleanly made point types in the country. The Folsomoid manufacturing technique is the major reason for their suggested temporal placement, AFAIK they have never been firmly dated.

Post ID#20096 - replied 4/13/2013 3:32 PM



Charlie Hatchett

Interesting stuff to know, SR.

I see what your talking about on the second and third points from the left in the following image:




http://www.lithiccastinglab.com/gallery-pages/dantheus5cumberlandrowlarge.htm

http://www.lithiccastinglab.com/gallery-pages/2007februarydantheuspage2.htm


Thanks,

Charlie

Charlie Hatchett

PreClovis, Paleo and Archaic Artifacts from Central Texas

http://www.pre-clovis.com
http://www.forum.pre-clovis.com
http://www.blog.pre-clovis.com


Post ID#20097 - replied 4/13/2013 7:32 PM



StarRider

Very nice examples. A TQ Beaver Lake.

Post ID#20098 - replied 4/13/2013 7:46 PM



StarRider

The best Cumberland I've ever seen, it was displayed at the Longboot Symposeum years ago...Huntsville, AL area.

Post ID#20099 - replied 4/14/2013 10:43 AM



Charlie Hatchett

The highlighted one in the middle is a cherry. The gray one, at the bottom of the second column from the right could be mistaken for a Clovis. And the middle one in the far right column makes me understand your statement: "...they actually are more closely akin to Folsom than Clovis in their manufacturing method. They are also almost invariably extremely well made, one of if not the most cleanly made point types in the country. The Folsomoid manufacturing technique is the major reason for their suggested temporal placement..."

Post ID#20100 - replied 4/14/2013 7:03 PM



StarRider


Most of them are Clovis Charlie. The Tennessee and Cumberland drainages around that area have produced many fluted points, the Huntsville/Decatur, Alabama area has probably the highest concentration of any area in the U.S. The Redstone type is named for the Redstone Arsenal, where some of the earlier examples were found, and the Quad type is named for the site of the same name...that site has produced more fluted points than most statesl both are in the area. There are probably many more undiscovered sites in the area on Pleistocene riverbanks that are now underwater, stream flows were much lower during that time. Many of the known sites are deflated to varying degrees, so that during periods of low water artifact scatters become visible on the mud flats. There are many farms in that area also, permission on a plowed field near the rivers is highly prized. The conference at which this photo was taken featured featured about fifteen hundred fluted points, most from that area.

Al Goodyear spoke at this conference also, and had an assemblage of stuff from Topper on display there.

Post ID#20103 - replied 4/17/2013 3:38 AM



Charlie Hatchett

Yeah, there certainly seems to be an east and south to west and north gradient of fluted points.

The circled points in the following image are interesting:



Are these all Cumberland?

Charlie Hatchett

PreClovis, Paleo and Archaic Artifacts from Central Texas

http://www.pre-clovis.com
http://www.forum.pre-clovis.com
http://www.blog.pre-clovis.com

Post ID#20104 - replied 4/17/2013 5:21 PM



StarRider

Only the center one and the one to the immediate right are Cumberlands. The ones you have circled are Clovis, with the exception of the second from left, which is probably a Redstone. The one at far right top is either Redstone or a Clovis that has been resharpened many times, they can be somewhat difficult to type sometimes. The more waisted one second from right at top is a later form, they are similar to Simpson in Florida but they appear in many parts of the Southeast under a few different names, they are usually fluted but not always.

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