Interesting views. One thing I noticed on the original, and again here, the scratches are very light in color compared to the rest of the stone. This lack of patina suggests that the scratches are relatively recent, and therefore may relate more to the discovery of the stone and its recent location than to any ancient activity.

Where was this found? How was it uncovered? These are important questions to consider.

DM

Thank you DM for your reply. What you say about the patina / scratches, makes sense. I haven't done any tests on the rock, (scraping), to see what it does. I really don't want to do that, not even on the backside. I may experiment with a similar type rock, say with a big nail or somthing just to see if I can get the same affect. It's hard to tell or see from the photos but the scratches are deliberate.

The rock was found about 10 years ago, on the beach, lying in a huge embankment of other rocks, (millions of rocks), taken from where I don't know and placed on the beach to prevent beach erosion, in Encinitas, CA. I would have to check with the city but I think they might dig the rocks up at the beach and then pile them into a shelf. (aaaaahhh!) This is a regular practice just prior to the big storms & high surf to protect sand loss. Most of the rocks are smoother and blacker than this one but many of them are other colors also. I cannot imagine someone making the scratches, artwork, whatever, (which would have to take hours), and then just tossing it away. All sorts of stupid people do stupid things I guess so who knows? I live near this beach & have never seen anything like it since. This is very frustrating to me. Within days of finding it, I showed it to a geologist friend & another person who likes Native American things. They thought it was unusual, that's all. It's been wrapped up in tissue paper, hiding in a drawer since 1997-98. It's frustrating not to be able to vidicate any of it. I'm mad at myself for not following up / thru on it at the time. I might have been able to find out something but I think that window has passed. I wasn't able to follow that lead because my life was churning in another direction. Funny how we always look back and wish we could do things different, better, smarter with confidence. Don't let anyone shoot you down in whatever you're doing. Go with confindence & take notes!

The Navajo say that "rocks are people, too, they just move slower." That said, it is very difficult to say if the figure apparent on the rock is intentionally made by humans or is a result of scraping during the process of being dug up, loaded in a truck, and then dumped. As to the lighter color of the figure, this is typical of pecked or scratched rock art. I have seen many petroglyphs that are 800 to 1000 years old that look as fresh as if they were made last week. Patination can take a very long time, and in any case, will vary, depending on local conditions and the situation of the surface being patinated. Also, with a figure like this, it is very difficult to say - assuming it IS cultural - what it represents. It looks like a human, but it might be either a man or a woman, or it might be a representation of a spirit, or something entirely different, identifiable only to one familiar with the details of the culture/religion/worldview of the creator of the image. You might want to take it to a museum or university and have an archaeologist check it out and give you a hands-on opinion. 8-)

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Hi there.

Where did you find the piece on the righthand side? :?

Any chance of getting some close ups of the edges, a profile shot, and a shot of the other side?

Thank you, rkeyo for your post and suggestions. I do need to get it together and go down to the museum in San Diego.

Hello Mr. Hatchett:

The smaller piece, (trading blank?/ scraper?), may have come from Texas or California. The person who gave it to me came from Texas with her parents in a covered wagon. I rented the house next door to her for 11 years, which her father built in 1925. She said her father collected rocks and I remember at the time I just assumed he colleced them here in CA. She was using them to 'decorate the flowerbeds!' Not far from this house, at a construction site where a lot of digging & shaving away had been done, some friends found several large petrified Great White sharks teeth, (like glass), and some small bird bones all of which they took to the musuem of Man in Balboa Park. They said the Archs were not so interested in the teeth of which they had many from the Pleistocene, sp?, (the neighborhood was completely under water 4 million years ago and a real hangout of the Great White), but they went completely apey for the bird bones and "stowed them away to a little wooden drawer." Upon hearing this, you'd think I would have dug up the whole backyard. It just wasn't the mindset at the time. To preservers & surveyors of man's past these missed opportunities probably sound irresponsible. I agree completely. I will get the digital camera back and take some more photos of the green stone which is very pale green in person.

I will get the digital camera back and take some more photos of the green stone which is very pale green in person.

Yeah, that one definitely looks worked. If I let my imagination loose, the other piece looks like head. It's hard to prove stuff like that though, because art is such a subjective thing. Are there any definite working marks on it?

Mr. Hatchett: I'm not sure which piece you're referring to here? (above). We took more photos, (6), of the green piece. I will post them at
http://www.momsreallymad.blogspot.com Thanks for your interest.

On the big one I see the whole thing as a head, sort of like an Easter Island type of head shape.

From this view the piece definitely looks worked:

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Hi Mr. Hatchett...bare with me here,...I know absolutely zilch about ARCH. What do you mean when you say..."looks worked"? Forgive my ignorance...I guess it should be obvious what that means...but can you clarify precisely what it means because honestly, I'm just not sure. I'm guessing...freshly cut?

The larger rock with the art has no "definate work marks" if you mean as in chiseled or sharp edges...everything has worn smooth edges even where there are obvious cut outs. The rock itself is also course unlike the green one which is very smooth with an eggshell finish.

Hi Mr. Hatchett...bare with me here,...I know absolutely zilch about ARCH. What do you mean when you say..."looks worked"? Forgive my ignorance...I guess it should be obvious what that means...but can you clarify precisely what it means because honestly, I'm just not sure. I'm guessing...freshly cut?

The larger rock with the art has no "definate work marks" if you mean as in chiseled or sharp edges...everything has worn smooth edges even where there are obvious cut outs. The rock itself is also course unlike the green one which is very smooth with an eggshell finish.

By worked I mean that it looks manmade versus natural. Hard to say on the larger rock. :?

Hi there, I don't think you are looney at all or maybe we both are looney :lol: I don't know that much about things since I just started finding out about my findings but...I don't think the scrathes on the rock that looks like a pic of a person, can be accidental from loading etc. it is too detailed. Even one of the other pics of the green chert looks like an eagle beak and that section of the feathers extending from there. Whether or not it is our great imaginations they are really cool :D On my pics of my findings I have a black glob of a rock that has fur strands coming out in some places. It is shiny to me it could possibly be petrified doo doo :lol: But I won't get rid of it even if some one tells me it is nothing, It at the least makes a great conversation piece :wink: I also see the head shape I have seen and heard before that some art work done way back when would be twice worked like the actual rock as a head and the etching over the eye area to me would mean maybe that the person that was working the rock saw someone. I don't know if you have ever read anything about Kokapelli, but what I have read was that when people saw him it was such an experience that they would draw a pic about it. Wonder who this guy saw?

One thing to keep in mind is gravel/ nodule/ boulder deposits are usually found fairly deep in alluvial deposits.

I've seen first hand, near one of the subunits I'm researching, bulldozers scooping up tons of strata, in which I've found nice bifaces, blades and cores, to lay down roads for heavy construction equipment involved in the initial development of large neighborhoods and commercial areas.

Sorry it took me so long to repond...Thank you Mr. Hatchett, for your explanation of "worked". I've only read a little about Arch and I've seen a few shows on PBS...so I really have no knowledge of the terms. I was able to find some info from our city about the beach rocks. It seems they have been deposited to the beach over time naturally via a river called the San Luis Rey River. Sometime during the 1920's they did some dredging in land and the natural flow of these rocks was changed. I'm going to see what else I can find out about the river. Thank you for your insights & inspiration.

Hi Lisa D and thank you for your incouragement re: being looney. It's amazing what we can do when we let our imaginations run wild. I thought your post was very interesting! I like that you care about your finds even though they might not be something outrageous. I see so many rocks and think they're special...but I can't keep them all...or can I? Anyway thank you for the very interesting post. My gut feeling with the big rock was that this was a self-portrait...but now that I've read your post I'm wondering.

Sometime during the 1920's they did some dredging in land and the natural flow of these rocks was changed. I'm going to see what else I can find out about the river.

Great! 8-)

Let us know what you find out about the rock, and if it, and others like it, come from a definite layer upstream. If you can identify the source, you may find other's like it. Science likes that. It's called replicability.

Hi, I pick up everything I see...With all the chert pieces that I have I am going to inlay the foyer floor with them. I am going to use a self leveling acrylic I think it will look awesome. You could build a water feature w/ your rocks...I'm sure that there is a rock sealant. Just a thought!!!

You could build a water feature w/ your rocks...I'm sure that there is a rock sealant. Just a thought!!!

:roll: ...Yeah, while the Berkeley Geochronology Center and the United States Geological Survey strangle me. :shock:

These guys have obtained initial dating results in the 147,500 B.P. range. BGC is in the process of dating 6 more specimens to see if they can replicate the results. Results due in May....

Hi everyone I now this is a old post but is their anywhere I can go to retrieve this image that Mr Hatchett mentioned " that it look's worked " on the stone that eyesforclovis has, for I am new to this site and came upon this topic and have a couple of worked stone with sevral Image's on also. I tried momsreallymad blog but found nothing, im not wanting to start this topic all over just want a pic of it, I would be vary greatful. Thanks to all and I really enjoy this site. Jeff

Perhaps eyesforclovis will repost the two pieces. One of the pieces looked worked to me.

Sure I'd be happy to post photos. One rock was found by my old landlady's father who came to CA from Texas in a covered wagon. That one looks like green Texas chert? but it's opaque. Don't laugh Charlie, you know I'm a rookie. The other rock I found myself around 15 years ago here in Southern CA. Not sure which rock you mean, I'm guessing the one with the caveman on it. I'll post both of them. Thanks for your interest. I forgot how to add a photo in here but I'm working on it. I will also put them at the top of the blog www.momsreallymad.blogspot.com

P.S.: If you go to the topic in here called, "Sorry, it's another one of those...I found this rock" You can see some of the photos that are closeups of the rock in question. [/img]

Imo, the one on the bottom in this image is worked:



Another view, the piece on the right side:

Thank you Charlie. That rock is very pale sea foam green in person. The photos make it dark. That's the one my landlady friend from Texas gave me; said her dad was a collector. Her maiden name was Miles. She passed away back in 1986, she was 90 something.

Thank you vary much Eyeforclovis and Mr. Hatchett I really appreciated the pics. Jeff

No problem.