Papyus must have not been too treasured to be torn from whatever manuscript it originated. 
Either a book mark or piece of toilet paper???

Not to get too hung up on a technicality, but I did not read anything about it being torn...I saw mention of fragments which can be interpreted as many things.  And, just to toss out a devil's advocate argument...perhaps it was highly treasured by whomever possessed it, to have tucked it away within a possible personal possession of Psalms.   Not sure....just a wonder...I would wager it became garbage to someone at some point, the psalms, not the papyrus as whoever tossed into the bog likely did not know it was there (again speculating). 

I am not very active on the forums, busy with a homeschool 5 year old, work, etc., so if I don't reply anytime soon, do not take offense. 

Frogsmom;

Good point.  I let my bias (horror of) against torn-out book pages color my thoughts!

The only sure thing about pieces of manuscripts is that somewhere along the line someone didn't care about them enough to conserve or preserve them. 

btw: in Medieval Europe, only the rich had toilet "paper."  Actually, was a type of linen!  Am reminded of that sequence in "Dances with Wolves" where the private is in the weeds near the drinking water and uses the sacred diary pages in a creative manner.

LOL!  And yes I recall that sequence of the film too.

My speculation trends towards whoever chucked it did not know it was there in the cover, but rather was chucking the Psalms.   AND, that it may have been important enough to tuck away, perhaps with a different owner altogether....too much speculation and  I suppose we will never know. 

Interesting mystery.

BTW, I have been off-line for awhile (and am rarely on), but I read through the GB thread, and have to concur with you.  Personal bias was one of the reasons I realized I could not be a cultural anthropologist--I recognized that I was unable to set aside my bias when studying a culture.  Hutterites are my thing (still are and I love to study them when I can, but I gotta earn a living, so this work-at-home, mom, homeschooling a small child, and self-employed consulting in historic architecture and CRM are my lifestyle and manner to pay the bills at the moment).  Anyhow, even with the Hutterites, I do not believe I could immerse within and completely observe the culture without being affected by my own biases, based upon my own life (upbringing to they way I live, my values, mores, etc today, that shape my world view).  I suppose some can, but I have a hard time accepting that anyone, anthropologists included, can be 100% unbiased.  A person's worldview is created based upon their environment, and it tends to color their observations, and interpretations and I would say influence their judgements, whatever they may be (Beck included I suppose).  And, worldview is not the same from one person to another, as even within a City, a persons local culture will ultimately affect their perspective in life.

I am not academic enough to get into the minutiae of the direction the conversation took, but I gleaned enough to be able to state what I think above, albeit in a different forum. 

Agree, not one of us can be free of the influences of our cultural and educational experiences (bias).  We can strive to recognize them for what they are and seek to neutralize them--or use them as a sounding board.  We just need to be aware of how they can influence us.  My thought is that too many papers are published without clearly stating the perspective of the reasercher and how any possible bias was evalutated. 

I think the first guy on GB got hung up on this.  This person seemed to think that the sounding board thing was all there was.  I still scratch my head about the the "representing his people" as a minority archaeologist, but then not wanting to explain what this is and why he wouldn't want to list it on his resume. 

Minutiae is right.  The other I think was an anarchist just out to use their knowledge of philosophic terms to torment the discussion.

mho anyway, who am I to judge, eh???  We need all types to comment, ask questions and start new threads!  Makes life interesting.


From what little I know, study of the Hutterites would be fascinating.  Don't give up doing something professionally because you have strong opinions. You can use your bias or "innate perspective" to be a spring board to evaluate how they have survived despite or because of being "different." 

Start writing up your observations on some aspects important to you if you haven't already done so....don't be surprised if some of your past thoughts get changed.  Then try to put yourself into a different perspective such as viewing this topic from the perspective of a Hutterite actually living in whatever time period your studying.

Don't tell anyone that I said this, but the method Is just like the historiography that a historian
uses to get a sense of what it was like to be, say, a German farmer in the Thirty Years War.   IMHO, there is a great deal of overlap between the Cultural Anthro and History. For that matter, between Physical Anthro and History also.  The parties just don't want to admint it.

Can't imagine what your life is like with your schedule.  Best wishes and hope you can participate on this site often.  It would be great to get some sort of discussion going about the Hutterites!

Thanks-reading through the other thread I had a feeling we probably agreed more than not. 

As for the Hutterites, I utilized them as the subject of my undergrad thesis.  And, yes, my perspective did play into a hypothesis for their ridicule.  It was all a loooong time ago, but I had wanted to continue into grad school, but realized I did not want to pursue academia as a career, saw little else use for the study and cultural anthropology as my lifeway, and truly did not want to set aside my bias...and that in and of itself was a difficult recognition...and one I think cultural anthro students should seriously consider...can they set aside their bias...do they even want to, and those two questions require some deep sense of self.   For me, it was not the lifestyle I wanted to pursue.  Kudos to those that choose to do so.  CRM kept me busy for years, about broke my back and I developed a love for historic architecture and now BSOs are my passion. 

But, someday my hubby and I will return to MT and I may take up study of the Hutterites again.  Interesting folks with an interesting history and I have enjoyed their company.  Now that I study architecture I ponder the incorporation of it into a study...colony architectural form and layout and its shaping, in part, and reinforcing, of their lifestyle.  We shall see...for now...pay the bills, educate the little guy (my field assistant), and enjoy life and my work.

Glad you are on the site...it was getting rather dull listening to the same old crowd say the same old things.  I am a lurker more or less, and infrequent poster, but that thread and this caught my eye.